Behind The Scenes with Mary Pipher

What I learned from a bestselling author about forgiveness and happiness.

🎙️ Listen to this episode of the [B]OLD AGE podcast: Bestselling Author Mary Pipher on Forgiveness, Happiness, and Old Age

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And now, Behind The Scenes of this episode…

When Mary Pipher’s bestselling book Reviving Ophelia: Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls was published in 1994, my older daughter was 17 and my younger daughter was 12. The book made waves among psychologists, teachers, high schools, the Girl Scouts, the YWCA and more. It made her famous. And it spoke to me as a mother.

Mary was the first psychologist to recognize and articulate why life was difficult for adolescent girls and why so many of them felt bad about themselves. As she puts it in her book, “American culture was poisonous to teenage girls.” Even pre-Internet, in the 90s, there was an onslaught of sexual advertising in magazines and on TV. The messages to girls were clear: Be Thin! Achieve the Perfect Body! In addition, if you were achievement-oriented in school, you had to Be Smart and Perfect too.

I knew on some level that this was difficult for my daughters, but I didn’t really know how to talk to them about it. (I wish I had, or at least more directly.) That inability to communicate with your teenage daughters is something Mary addresses directly in Reviving Ophelia. 

In addition, when I read Mary’s book almost three decades ago, I felt she was speaking to me. I remember questioning myself as a teenager: Am I beautiful? Am I thin enough? Am I wearing the right clothes? In the 60s I flicked through the glossy pages of the voluminous issues of Seventeen Magazine and was mesmerized by the models and their matching outfits. I so desperately wanted to look like that.

Of course many of those feelings have continued right up to today; like so many others I am still looking for acceptance and approval.

Bestselling author Mary Pipher has a new memoir out in paperback: “A Life in Light: Meditations on Impermanence”

Then, when I read Mary Pipher’s 2019 bestseller, Women Rowing North: Navigating Life’s Currents and Flourishing As We Age, I was already thinking about the topic of “growing older” as something to explore on the podcast. The book focuses on women navigating the transition from middle age to old age. Her thesis is that there are many challenges, from misogyny to ageism, but that ultimately older women are happier and more content. And they are grateful for what life has still to offer. That rings true for me.

Her newest book, a memoir titled A Life in Light: Meditations on Impermanence, was just released last week in paperback. I’ve enjoyed it tremendously, underlining page after page. As you’ll hear in this episode of the podcast I was struck by something Mary says at the beginning of the book:

“My knowledge about happiness comes from being someone who has struggled with sadness and anxiety much of my life.” - Mary Pipher

Again, I felt as if she were speaking directly to me. I too have struggled with depression at times and when I’m not depressed I sometimes feel profoundly happy. Not in a manic way but with gratitude. What a gift it is to feel fine, or normal, or whatever you want to call it.

In her memoir (and in this podcast episode) Mary, now 76, talks about her difficult childhood and her relationship with her parents, the importance of family and community, living in a small town in Nebraska, and what the particular challenges of getting old are. She also talks about forgiveness, about adopting Buddhism and her definition of happiness. Per the title, she’s obsessed with light, through trees, on walks, at certain times of day, in certain rooms, and in memories — and how the light makes her feel happy and complete. Her passages about “light” resonate with me and I’m sure many readers.

Mary has written eleven books in all and at this point in her life is pretty famous. So when I invited her onto the podcast I was not sure she would accept. But she did, sending back a prompt email: “Thanks for the honor of your invite. It looks like a great podcast - Mary.” Not all well-known guests are this gracious.

It’s worth your time to listen to this episode. Mary is articulate and wise. She explains so well what it’s really like to get old and yet still feel so alive.

Link to the show notes and Mary’s books, her recent guest essay for the NYT, and more

In the show notes for this episode you’ll find links to Mary’s books and to a Dec. 11, 2023 guest essay she wrote for the New York Times.

Show notes for S6-EP5 with Mary Pipher

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The fabulous new artwork for my Substack and podcast was created by the very talented

Judith P.Raynault

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This is Season 6 of my [B]OLD AGE podcast. Thank you for listening! I interview authors, experts, and exceptional individuals to reveal the truths about [b]oldly moving from midlife to old age. You can find over 100 previous episodes on Apple podcasts or on my website.